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HoosierFutbol
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Reged: 28/06/2008
Posts: 4
I need a pro team to follow
      #12434 - 28/06/2008 08:38

Hello everyone. I am new to the board and while not at all new to the sport (played organized for 10+ years) I am relatively new to the world of professional soccer/football/futbol (whatever your preferece ).

I'm 23 and just graduated from Indiana University, who has arguably the best college soccer program in the nation. We regularly draw thousands of fans to games (which is very good for an amateur team in the US), many of which I attended over the last 4 years.

Anyway, besides Indiana soccer, I've always followed the World Cups and Olympics, but never quite got into pro soccer....most likely due to lack of exposure, enthusiasm and overall talent here in the states. I spent the last couple of months in Europe and couldn't help but get extremely into the Champions League and Euro2008 tournaments. And for the first time, professional-level soccer in Europe has really attracted my interest.

My problem is, outside of a few players and the reputations of a few teams, I don't know much overall about the European leagues (English Premier, La Liga, Serie A, etc...). I'll be moving to Los Angeles in about a month and will happily support the Galaxy, but let's be honest, MLS just isn't that exciting to watch on a regular basis.

So, I ask you, members of worldsoccer.com, to help me find a European club in a competitive league to follow for the upcoming season. Why should I cheer on your favorite team at the start of the next season? Cheers!

Edited by HoosierFutbol (28/06/2008 08:40)


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Rogorn
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Reged: 24/03/2007
Posts: 310
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: HoosierFutbol]
      #12436 - 28/06/2008 12:41

A good and exciting question, thank you very much for asking us.

First of all, I don't know how much you know, so excuse me if I say things you're familiar with already. Besides, I'm not going to tell you which team to support, because most of the fun will be to find one for yourself.

Compared to the simplicity of American team sport seasons (one competition to rule them all, whoever wins is the Undisputed Champion Of Everything), European soccer has got lots of prizes on offer. English and European Champions Manchester United, for example, will be contesting seven different trophies in 2008-9, two of them (the Charity Shield and the European Super Cup) involving just one game, as curtain-raisers to the English and European season, and another tournament involving just two games (the Club World Cup, for the right to be named best in the world).

European countries have got two competitions: the League and the Cup. The league is the most important of the two, and in it the best teams in the country (usually between 16 and 20, although in some contries there are less teams) play each other twice. The team with the most points at the end is the League champion and reckoned the best team in the nation. The bottom teams are relegated to the second division and replaced by the best from that second tier. The best teams in each country's league (from some countries just one, from others as many as four, depending on the league's ranking) qualify for the following season's Champions League, where the best teams in the continent play to be the European Champion, at the same time as they play another league and cup in their country. The Champions League is played in group stages followed by elimination rounds, home and away, until the final, played in a neutral venue. There is a second continent-wide competition for the 'best of the rest' called the UEFA Cup, a kind of second division in Europe.

The national Cup is an elimination competition running parallel to these two. This is open to more than just the 20 best teams in the country. Some countries restrict the rest of the entrants to professional teams and others allow many other teams. In this competition the excitement comes from the constant threat of elimination, often at the hands of lesser opposition, what is called 'giant-killing'. In the league you can recover after a bad game. In the Cup you can't, so the best team doesn't always win it.

Some countries have two cup competitions, which leads to a quite crowded fixture list. In England, for example, the teams involved in European competition tend to play teams full of reserves and young players at least in the early rounds of this second cup, the League Cup.

So, all of this can be quite a bit to take in. If you throw in international games played by the national teams (from September, qualification games for the 2010 World Cup), you can find players playing four different competitions in four consecutive matches.

If you have time for only one thing, follow the Champions League. It's just the NBA of soccer. All players in the world play in it or want to play in it, and if any don't, there's a reason why: they're not good enough yet, they tried and failed, their team didn't make it and he couldn't transfer to a team that did... It's the place to be.

Besides, it's a competition in which any team from up to 10-12 clubs have a realistic chance of winning it, and it is impossible to predict which one will. Since this format was started in 1993, no team has retained the trophy.

In Europe there isn't a draft system to help balance teams, so usually the same teams dominate the national leagues year after year, buying the best players from the rest, winning more titles, which helps them buy the best again, etc. It is not impossible to break these dynasties up, but it happens rarely.

The leagues to watch are Spain, England and Italy. If you can follow them as well as the Champions League you'll get the whole pciture of European football, as what happens in one competition can affect what happens in the rest: an injury, a sacked manager, a refereeing scandal... They're the top 3 leagues, as ranked by UEFA, and their top teams have the best players in the world. If you take the top 4 in England (Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, both from London), the top 3 in Italy (Juventus of Turin, Internazionale of Milan and AC Milan), the top two in Spain (Real Madrid and Barcelona) and the top 1 in Germany (Beyern Munich), those 10 teams consistently have the best players in the world, and if there's a good one somewhere else, he'll be signed up asap, or there will be something iffy with him. If you're going for glamour and real chances of winning trophies, your choice of team might come from one of these.

The German, French, Portuguese and Dutch leagues usually come next. Their teams can give any of the top clubs a good fright and have slipped through won the title on occasion. Olympique Lyonnais are dominant in France (seven straight league titles), Porto, and Benfica and Sporting, both from Lisbon, are the best in Portugal, and Ajax of Amsterdam, Feyenoord of Rotterdam and PSV of Eindhoven dominate in the Netherlands, a country renowned with producing brilliant players who then move on abroad. The best players from world powers Brazil and Argentina also play in Europe.

The rest of Europe struggles to be noticed in the Champions League. Greek and Turkish teams do well every now and then, but they usually just make up the numbers. A chance to shine might come in the lesser competition, the UEFA Cup, in which a Russian team beat a Scottish one in this year's final.

This is your short guide to the European game. As for which team to follow, I think that will come naturally to you by watching games. For example, Russia's best player at Euro 2008, Andrei Arshavin, has just said that he always liked FC Barcelona, of Spain. When he was 11 Barcelona were European Champions, reached another final two years later, and had a team and a style of play may fans in Europe still remember. And now he might just get himself signed by Barcelona.

This happens very often: each fan has a liking for a team in his own country and a sympathy for the dominant team in the continent when he started to watch football. In any interview you read you will hear players talk about their favourite teams being Liverpool, Real Madrid, Milan or Ajax depending on their age.

So I recommend you do the same. Watch, see what you like, and of course, read World Soccer.

One thing I'd recommend you, being American, is that you use your roots, which could be fun. Unless you're 100 per cent Native American, your ancestors, somewhere up in the family tree, came from somewhere else. Find out about it and support the teams from where they came from. You might even have your own Champions League to choose from, if you have people from different countries in it. It will teach you something about yourself as well as help you enjoy the footie.

Cheers and welcome.


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stephen_woodside
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Reged: 02/05/2007
Posts: 1880
Loc: Huyton, Merseyside
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: HoosierFutbol]
      #12438 - 28/06/2008 12:59

A warm Welcome to the forum HoosierFutbol. If you are looking for a team to follow, then why not support a team that is not regarded in the "Big Four" category. My team Everton have a massive fan base, great traditions and boasts many firsts in the world game. Being founder members of the football league, Everton are the first football club in the world to have played more than 100 years in the top flight. Despite years of not winning silverware, Everton remain the 6th most successful club in England. The club have a huge tradition of number nines that have included Tommy Lawton, Bob Latchford to name a couple but the most famous of all was the legendary William Ralph "Dixie" Dean. Dean is arguably the greatest centre-forward that ever lived, scoring 60 league goals in one season, a record that still stands today and will almost certainly never be broken. Under manager David Moyes, one of the brightest young managers in England, we have a team that are improving with each season in the best league in world football. Give Everton one of two cheers this coming season. All the very best, ste.

--------------------
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum


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badgerboy
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Reged: 26/03/2007
Posts: 727
Loc: Bucks, England
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: stephen_woodside]
      #12439 - 28/06/2008 13:43

Not that there is an "official award" but I nominate Rogorn for June's "Member of the Month" award.

Both for his extensive reply here & his contribution to the Euro 2008 thread.

Of course an "honourable mention" has to go to Mr Woodside for his running of the Euro 2008 prediction game & his barefaced bias here (especially when contrasted to Rogorn's post) made me chuckle.

As to the question. Well that made me chuckle a bit too as it reads to me (a born cynic I will admit) like a beautifully crafted "troll masterpiece".

As to the answer - I can't really add much to what Rogorn has already said. I'm an "underdog" fan myself so would agree with Mr Woodside that picking a team outside "the ten" would be a good idea. I'd also feel free to pick a team from each league you're going to be watching (assuming you're going to be watching lots).

My personal (pointless) recommendations - just because they are "personal":

Premier League: Arsenal (from the big four), Aston Villa (from outside). Arsenal play the most watchable football (though Man U are good too but if you picked them you'd lose all credibility amongst most "real" fans), Villa have a great manager & a young team (plenty of English players) and you'll get an early start to the season (they're in the Intertoto). Plus of course you should be cheering like mad for all the promoted teams (West Brom, Stoke & Hull City).

Serie A: From the big three Milan are the lesser of three evils. If you think there's a "big four" Roma are infinitely preferable. Outside that Fiorentina are in the Champions League & have an excellent manager, and if you ever plan to visit southern Italy being a Napoli fan (above all other Italian teams) would probably get you great kudos.

La Liga: Of the "big two" - Barcelona - although my reasons for liking them are diminishing. For me Spain have a lot of other very "likeable" teams but Atletico Madrid are edging it for me for next season as - depending on their qualifying draw they should be hitting the CL group stage for the first time in a long time. And they have Sergio Aguero.

Elsewhere: Zenit in the Champions League (provided they keep enough of their UEFA Cup players to play the same type of wonderful attacking football); Wolfsburg in Germany (& the UEFA Cup) - an underdog with money - and although it's a long time ago now they used to be managed by a guy called Wolfgang Wolf - which is just too good; Saint-Etienne in France (& the UEFA Cup) - Les Verts are in Europe for the first time in a few decades (I think) - a great side in the 70s (before my time) with a fanatical support in France.


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HoosierFutbol
member


Reged: 28/06/2008
Posts: 4
Thank you for your responses! [Re: badgerboy]
      #12443 - 28/06/2008 15:14

First, Rogorn, thank you for a fantastic post. I actually bought the June issue of World Soccer and literally read every word cover-to-cover my 11-hour flight back from Italy to the US the other day. From that, I learned a lot of the things you explained, but wasn't quite able to figure out the structure of everything. So your post clarified a lot of question marks for me. I will say, I have direct German heritage from both sides of my family, so I've been following and rooting on Deutchland since the beginning of the Euro2008 (good year to do that, right? Ha).

MrWoodside, I'll definitely try to give Everton a watch at some point this season.

Badgerboy, no "trolling" here. All legitimate questions. Super-biased answers are as welcome to me as the unbiased as I'm still just trying to get a feel for the European professional game and its fans as a whole.


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Rogorn
member


Reged: 24/03/2007
Posts: 310
Re: Thank you for your responses! [Re: HoosierFutbol]
      #12444 - 28/06/2008 16:26

A very good site to get good and to-the-point information without having to click on a hundred buttons first is Wikipedia. Here's on the Champions League:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League

Have a look at the bottom for the list of past winners. Not that you'll need to be a complete anorak, but you'll need to know some basic facts about who's who. From it, click on anything in blue to know more.

UEFA's own site is the official word
http://www.uefa.com/

FIFA and UEFA are very active in banning YouTube footage, but you can find lots of older matches and highlights there. Try this one from the USA 1994 World Cup, one of the best in the history of the tournament:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dRUhJkZQorI

Enjoy


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RichieC
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Reged: 17/07/2006
Posts: 526
Re: Thank you for your responses! [Re: Rogorn]
      #12469 - 01/07/2008 12:30

Try Coventry...they're a club with a rich history...(FA Cup winners 1987, Simod Cup semi finalists 1988)...and we've recently been bought by someone who has absolutely no real connection with the club whatsoever! If it's endless misery and appalling football you want, you'll find it all here in Coventry! Sky Bluuuuues...shooting to win!

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Rogorn
member


Reged: 24/03/2007
Posts: 310
Re: Thank you for your responses! [Re: RichieC]
      #12471 - 01/07/2008 17:06

Quote:

Try Coventry...they're a club with a rich history...(FA Cup winners 1987)



Are you sure about that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9myHhpS9s


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shaddy58
member


Reged: 06/07/2008
Posts: 3
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: HoosierFutbol]
      #12512 - 06/07/2008 14:02

If you would like to support an underdog (and which true football fan does not) then try Hull City in the English Premiership - they have reached the first division for ther first time in over 100 years and surely everyone 9well the romantics out there) wants them to survive

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reddevil82
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Reged: 27/06/2008
Posts: 37
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: shaddy58]
      #12515 - 07/07/2008 10:51

I was the same in '94, drawn in by the Republic in Italia '90 and just getting into the club game, but in Ireland it was a straight choice between United and Liverpool. For the Premiership, I suggest Tottenham - a team with a relatively strong squad, a successful manager and a proud domestic and European history. As for Europe, Villareal are a small, local club that finished runners-up in La Liga and reached the semi-finals of the 2006 European Cup.

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RichieC
member


Reged: 17/07/2006
Posts: 526
Re: Thank you for your responses! [Re: Rogorn]
      #12536 - 08/07/2008 14:05

Quote:

Quote:

Try Coventry...they're a club with a rich history...(FA Cup winners 1987)



Are you sure about that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ9myHhpS9s




Can't view it at work and got no internets at home at the mo Worrissit?


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stephen_woodside
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Reged: 02/05/2007
Posts: 1880
Loc: Huyton, Merseyside
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: reddevil82]
      #12537 - 08/07/2008 15:11

Quote:

but in Ireland it was a straight choice between United and Liverpool




I have never got my head around why Irish fans of the game tend to support by and large, four teams in Liverpool, Manchester United, Rangers or Celtic brushing aside there local sides from the Irish leagues. It therefore puzzles me that so many of the Irish contingiency rub there hands with glee when the English National side fails, yet many support English club sides. How does the League of Ireland survive when the majority of fans opt in financially supporting clubs outside of Ireland? What has happened to supporting a team from where you are born and bred? I could not even think about supporting Chelsea, Manchester United or any other club side outside of the region i was brought up. Maybe i just have old fashioned values, but to me, locally supporting a club for life should be the order of the day. Sadly, this no longer exists for many.

--------------------
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum


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reddevil82
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Reged: 27/06/2008
Posts: 37
Re: I need a pro team to follow [Re: stephen_woodside]
      #12567 - 11/07/2008 14:21

The only problem with the League of Ireland is that the vast majority of teams are based in Dublin or the nearby province of Leinster on the east coast. Most counties in the south, west or midlands of Ireland have no League club, so the Premiership pretty much becomes the "local" league by default. The main spectator sports are gaelic football and hurling, but if a soccer team from Kerry ever joined the League of Ireland, I'd be more than happy to follow them.

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