Cules27
member
Reged: 14/06/2007
Posts: 5
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Messi and Maradona's goals were virtually identical so the fact that they are seperated by 9 places seems ridiculous. Yeah Maradona's was on a bigger stage but Messi's required no less skill and was no less breathtaking. The fact that Archie Gemills goal is ahead of Messi's is ridiculous. I don't have the magazine on me at the moment but I'm sure that goal was ridiculously high in the list.
I agree with gillespie's comments re Liverpools 2005 Champions League victory. Presumably it's only made it so high for the standard of Milan's football in the first half, not for the incredibly unjust end result.
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Tubzinho
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Reged: 04/08/2007
Posts: 9
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Hello everyone.
I'm a little mystified how the Real Madrid 1998 and Denmark 1986 teams feature so highly on the list. Were they really that good, the former being so good that Madrid fired Heynckes after they beat Juventus?
Also, being an Arsenal supporter I would have liked to have seen a mention of the 2004 unbeaten side in the top 20 or even the side that dominated the 30's under Herbert Chapman and Tom Whittaker.
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Historyman
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Reged: 14/07/2007
Posts: 240
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Welcome to the forum! I think that you're right about the two Arsenal teams. I'm not a fan of Arsenal but you had to stand back and applaud them for what they achieved during the 2003/04 season - and to do so over 38 games.
I've read a bit about the Arsenal teams of the thirties under Herbert Chapman. He was light years ahead of his time and his teams at Huddersfield and Arsenal reflected that.
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RichieC
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Reged: 17/07/2006
Posts: 534
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Denmark 86 may not have shone for very long, but anyone who has seen them when they took Uruguay apart has to acknowledge that, even if it were for that one brief moment, they were a truly great 'team'.
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Tubzinho
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Reged: 04/08/2007
Posts: 9
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But then what about Argentina's showing in the recent World Cup, especially when they destroyed Serbia including scoring one of the best team goals ever scored at a World Cup Finals? Would that also be sufficient enough for them to be labelled a 'great' team?
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Historyman
member
Reged: 14/07/2007
Posts: 240
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Two points that may have a bearing here:
1) The Denmark team of the mid 1980s knocked England out of the Euro '84 qualifiers, and reached the semi-finals in France. They also reached the finals in Germany four years later, although by then their star had begun to wane. You could argue that much of the side was together for six years.
2) It's still too early to say whether Argentina '06 will be remembered as a great side. Only the passing of time will tell.
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FootballFanatic1
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Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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The greatest club football in modern times(i.e. in the post 1970 era) has been played by the Milan sides of '88-'94 and then at times equalled if not surpassed, by the fantastic Real Madrid teams of '00-03. These two, especially Milan,have taken football to a different level. Standards have risen IMO because of teams such as these. They have shown the way. And to think that Milan were basically restricted from using their full squad by the regulations of the times, otherwise no team in history would have been able to field a stronger side or the choicest array of the talent of their era. Imagine this line up against you: 1.Rossi 2.Tassoti 3.Maldini 4.Rijkaard 5.Costacurta 6. Baresi 7. Savicevic 8. Boban 9. Van Basten 10. Gullit 11. Papin!!! Postively unstoppable I would imagine.
The Barcelona of the early 90's, the Juve of the late 90's and the Barcelona of the last few years have at times come close but in general fall short of the standard set by the top two. NO ONE else even comes close.
I obviously would favour an edit of your list to properly include these two sides.
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Historyman
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Reged: 14/07/2007
Posts: 240
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Milan should be considered one of the greatest ever club sides not solely for what they achieved, but also for the way that they revolutionised the way that football was played in Italy and elsewhere. Man to man marking, the sweeper system and catenaccio were all synomonous with the Italian game, yet Milan under Arrigo Saachi introduced zonal marking and 'pressing' - what players did without the ball became as important as what they did with it. Add to that the immense quality of the squad, dripping with world class talent, and you have a team that will never be forgotten. The fact that they were in Serie B in the early 80s already makes their story the stuff of legend.
They're definitely in a superior class to the Barcelona team of the same period. Although they played spellbinding football for much of that time, their defence was somewhat shaky - defending was never Cruyff's priority as a player or as a manager. The Dream Team were also extremely lucky - of the four consecutive liga titles that they won, the last three were all won by their rivals screwing up to hand them the title. Real Madrid famously lost twice in Tenerife, for example, to gift wrap the league for Barca. Ok, so they had the most points at the end of the race, but history won't see it that way.
It was appropriate that Milan destroyed Barcelona when they met in the 1994 European Cup Final - they were a far superior side in that era.
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FootballFanatic1
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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They were a great side but they had a dimwit of a coach.
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FootballFanatic1
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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I agree 100% with your assessment of the qualities and influence (as evidenced by Juve's adoption of the 'Milan way' and their subsequent domination of Italian and European football in the mid to late 90's despite losing two CL finals in a row!) of that Milan team.
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soccerfan
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Reged: 14/08/2007
Posts: 2
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PELE - MARADONA - RONALDO: 2 world cups, all time scoring leader in the world cup's he ability to score goals is the greates we've seen in the past decade and don't forget his skills even after comming back from injury no doubt he will be up there when he retires.
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FootballFanatic1
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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The greatest players in my times are as follows:
1. Maradona
2. Zidane
3. Van Basten
4. Baggio
5. Hagi
6. Romario
7. Gascoigne
8. Gullit
9. Batistuta
10.Maldini
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Historyman
member
Reged: 14/07/2007
Posts: 240
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I'm not sure when 'your times' began, but I would definitely put Michel Platini in ahead of Gascoigne. Platini was at his peak in the early to mid eighties - just before Maradona.
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stephen_woodside
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Reged: 02/05/2007
Posts: 1880
Loc: Huyton, Merseyside
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It is difficult to gauge lists like this as everyone as different opinions. Platini was a class player but so was Jean Tigina in the same French side, Marco Van Basten would be also in my list but as i said, everyone views things differently.
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Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
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FootballFanatic1
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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Platini and Zico are blurry memories of early childhood but the like of Maradona, Gullit played on well into my teens so I can judge their quality with much more objective vigour.
But if we are going by strict lifetime guidelines then even Cruyff, Pele (Cosmos?) and Beckenbuer were playing a few games here and there during 'my times'. :-)
Edited by FootballFanatic1 (14/08/2007 18:19)
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Mauricio
member
Reged: 03/06/2007
Posts: 96
Loc: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Zico would definetely be in my list. And at the top for that matter, only after Maradona. I would limit the list to the 80s onward, just to set a time frame.
I didn't really think this through, so I may have forgotten some important names, but my list would be:
1. Maradona
2. Zico
3. Zidane
4. Romario
5. Platini
6. Maldini
7. Matthäus
8. Van Basten
9. Ronaldo
10. Gullit
I'm sure many will disagree with some of my options and would place some other great player in the list (Batistuta, Baggio, Hagi, Rivaldo, Stojkovic, Roberto Carlos, Henry, and many others).
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Mauricio Drumond
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richards
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Reged: 12/06/2006
Posts: 88
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Zico's an interesting one. I suspect he is more highly rated in Brazil than elsewhere. He had a great repuatation, but my limited memories of him are from the great 1982 Brazil team in which he was just one among a galaxy of stars. In 86 I think he was injured and missed a penalty against France. I suspect the fact that we didn't see much of him in Europe and that he wasn't a World Cup winner, has had a negavitve impact on his reputation.
No mention of Cruyff so far? Perhaps you're too young. He was my favourite player. He wasn't as good as Maradona but he had a style and elegance that few players since have been unable to match.
The best players I've seen are:
Maradona
...BIG GAP...
Cruyff
Platini
Zidane
...BIG GAP...
Van Basten
Ronaldo
Maldini
Baresi
Romario
...BIG GAP...
Henry
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FootballFanatic1
member
Reged: 09/08/2007
Posts: 272
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Most Brazilians are of the opinion that Zico is their greatest player since Pele. He was under utilised in '78, was the spearhead in '82 and injured and a little long in the tooth in '86.
My vote for epitome of elegance goes to Zidane and Cruyff's protege, Van Basten. Both were tall men but had a natural grace and ease of movement about them that was so unusual in players of that type of stature. If football is the beautiful game, then I have not seen anyone play it more beautifully than Zidane, not even Maradona! At his best, football turned to ballet. How good was he against Brazil in '06? That was one turning back the years if ever there was one. But one scene I can never forget from Zidane was in CL clash against Man Utd a few years ago as he untangled himself from a knot of three surrounding Utd players (-one of them was Beckham) with the most exquisite drag backs from foot to foot, piroutte turns and a final swivel and 'no look' back heel to Roberto Carlos on the touch line. The look on Becks' face at the end of it just said it all ( he had been trying to redeem himself from the shocker and private nightmare he had being having against the left back in white with a challange on Zizou but alas could get no where near the ball) , but I couldn't believe my eyes either.
From the footage I have seen of Cruyff I would with you agree about the elegance of his play.
Roberto Baggio was another lithe mover with the ball. I would hazard a guess that he resembled Platini most amongst the later generations.
Edited by FootballFanatic1 (15/08/2007 18:57)
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Historyman
member
Reged: 14/07/2007
Posts: 240
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Zico was truly outstanding at the '82 World Cup. I remember his brilliant free kick against Scotland, which left Alan Rough rooted on his goal line (no surprise there!). He also scored a sensational goal against New Zealand, where he was able to swivel his body to hook the ball into the net - similar to Van Nistelroy's goal against Holland in Euro 2004. But my favourite memory was the brilliant turn and pinpoint pass to Socrates which lead to Brazil's first goal aginst Italy. Genius!
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das
member
Reged: 19/05/2007
Posts: 53
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cantona,george best........ anyone agree ?
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